In General
Pictures
The Subway Car
The
Riding Car
Floobydust
RAILFAN GUIDES HOME
RAILROAD SIGNALS HOME
A lot of us are into the Live Steam and/or Live Diesel hobby these days, but having something to run is still a luxury for most of us, and not all of us can afford to go out and spend 15 grand (or more) on a locomotive. I'm one of those, but not because I can't afford to spend that much on one engine :-(
So.
For a long time, I've wanted to have something to run. I didn't know if I wanted to do steam - because I am lazy, and I know I would not have the patience to fire one up, and then clean up afterwards, much less having the patience to build one, so steam was out. Gas would be OK, as they start around $5K...... But that was still too much for me when you have a number of expensive hobbies.
So, what to do?..... Buying is out, so I decided to roll my own.
However, we're back to the lazy problem compounded by time issues, trying to fit in the construction of this with daughters, grand-daughters, working on a rental property, mowing the lawn, and most lately, being retired (and for anyone who thinks you have MORE time when you retired, you are severely misinformed, just you wait! Why does life have to be so complicated?
My next question, what do I build, and how simple can I make it?
I could do a gas or electric powered steam engine, but
that's sort of like blasphemy. I could do a small gas engine powered
thing, either mechanical drive, or hydraulic drive, or even a gas-electric,
or, I could also do straight electric. So let's do electric, because
electric "stuff" is right up my alley having been into electronic
and electrical stuff all
my life (like radar systems and fixing light rail vehicles). We are
also into the ham radio and computer thing too, so you get my point! The picture below is of the classic
New York City Transit Authority Worlds Fair
subway car. The R-33 cars were built in 1962 and 1963, 500 were
delivered. The cars were designed to be operated as a married pair,
not because the two shared equipment, but rather, the cars only had one
operators cab in each car. Now, if you are familiar with the number 7
line, you know that most of the platforms had room for 11 cars. So a
number of the 500 cars delivered had cabs at both ends, not sure of the
exact number. This is the style I am going to build. Not sure
why they didn't just design a way to put three in a set, and disable the cab
in the center car.... The Wikipedia article does not mention or discuss the
double cab cars at all.
Scale Scale
So, since I don't do normal things, we have decided to make a New York City
subway car, known as an R-33. Why? I grew up with them during the
summers when we stayed with our grandparents, who lived a block away from
the 69th St/Fisk Avenue stop on the #7 IRT line.
Sources of info:
http://www.4qd.co.uk/
https://pikerivernorthern.com/
http://www.islandpondrailroad.com/tombee/
http://righttracksignals.com/?dls
http://www.plumcovestudios.com/index2.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R33
Back in the 60's, what is now the MTA, was called the
NYCTA, or TA for short. In later years, they picked
a Pennsy colored red to
paint the cars, and they became known as "the redbirds". The
blue ones famously served The
Worlds
Fair in Flushing, Queens, during 1964-1965. Most of us should be
familiar with the sight, as two of the (still) standing towers at the end of
the first Men In Black movie were at the fair's site.
My grandparents
lived about ten stops away on the #7 line, so I was on these things all the
time. My favorite thing to do, was to spend the day riding the subway,
and standing in the window watching everything. Too bad we didn't have
the cellphones like today, I'd have some great video!
My version of the drawing below
The picture below is the highest def picture I have come across to date. All three pictures below were taken at the Queensboro Hall. Ahhh, the good ole days when you could go between
cars and stand at the window and watch everything coming at you. Great entertainment when I was a kid for 15 cents a ride, even if it was for a whole day!
A Quick Once Over
the Motors
the Trucks
the Controller
the Frame
the Body
the Couplers
Electrical - Low Voltage Section
Electrical - High Voltage Section
the Air and Vacuum Systems
Brakes
Other Stuff
In order to make the car about the same width as most 1/8 scale cars, I'm going to use a scale of 1:1.9. This makes the 51 foot long car 97" long in scale, so we'll round it off to 8' even,
or 96". At the same time, this would make the 8'-8" wide car a scale 16.5" wide. While the scale is greater than the standard of 1.5 or 1.6, it still shouldn't look too
out of place because of the width.
Most of the stuff that will be going into the subway car:
1) the Harbor Freight 800w generator, 2) the HF vacuum pump, 3) the Laerdal vacuum pump, 4) the two size 95 marine deep cycle batteries by Everlast/from
Walmart, 5) the two Schumaker 15A battery chargers, 6) a combo air pressure regulator and water separator, 7) 6 pin plug and receptacle, 8) an electro-pneumatic 5x2 air valve 9) battery cut-off switch,
10) the main brake control valve, and 10) box full of the other parts I will be needing.
The Harbor Freight generator and vacuum pump
  The two vacuum pumps, battery charger, and misc electrical and pneumatic "things".
  The vacuum pump and tray with other stuff needed for the project.
the Motors
I'm planning on using "scooter" type motors, maybe Plum Cove, maybe not. They want $450 for one powered axle, $100 for just a motor, and $80 for an axle. I think I could make and find the
rest of the parts for less than $270. Maybe not :-) BTW, Pike River
Northern sells a powered axle for $500, so I guess $450 isn't too bad.
Scooter type motors would be able to be hung down in between the axles. Larger type scooter motors would have to be mounted above the trucks, taking up precious room inside the car.
I'm planning on having all four axle's powered.
If I get really ambitious, I may also power the four axles of the riding car, then we should have a real "puller"! :-)
The two full size marine batteries should have no problem powering 8 motors.
Two powered axles, each with a 24 volt motor hung on the axle, would be approximately half a horse with a 6:1 ratio to the axle if I use the same ratio as Plum Cove as used.
the Plum Cove powered axle and motor.
Electrical data for the Plum Cove motors, others should be similar.
the Trucks
Initially, I was planning on using a Plum Cove truck as is, but they are too large, and don't look right. It's probably easier to roll my own.
I'm thinking of welding a frame together using square tubing, and then
adding a decorative face to the outside, to approximate the look of the
subway trucks.
To mount the trucks to the frame, I'm planning on using a bolster beam across the truck, and mounting one of those things used on boats that allow a boat seat to rotate. It's a heavy duty Lazy Susan
type bearing. On the bottom side of it, I plan on putting small compressible springs to allow the truck to move slightly in the other two axis' so the subway car doesn't derail when it goes over "bumps
in the road". I think they were $10 each. Note: since the axles are already sprung, I may not need to use the springs for additional movement.
The arrangement with the lazy Susan's and extra springs has proven to be a successful idea after running another electric powered engine around the White Creek for two days,
so I may use it again!
The pictures below are screen shots from a side view of the car, with
sufficient resolution to blow up enough to see some of the details - it also
does not have the third rail pickup shoe and support on the truck to get in
the way! I included the door opening in the shot, so you can get an
idea of the scale - the opening is 4'-2". To explain the markings on
the trucks, electrical equipment on the 33 series was made by two
manufacturers: Westinghouse and GE. The equipment was similar, and
probably derived from the same set of drawings and/or specifications (an
assumption).
the Controller
Again, I was originally going to go with Plum Cove's controller, they offer what was previously sold by Diverse Electronic Services.
However...... I feel the power handling capabilities are too restricted, so
I think I'm going to use a 4QD DNO-10 controller. It will handle a
continuous current of 100 amps at 24V, the Plum Cove controllers are only
rated for 35 amps continuous.
The 6 pin connectors will be "strapped" so that
depending on which end the hand controller is plugged into, the end facing
you on the riding car will always be "the rear" for direction purposes.
This means it doesn't matter which way you put the thing on the track.
Nice thing about them thar transit cars, huh? We accomplish by using a
hi-current DPDT (double-pole, double-throw) relay, which will swap the
controller output leads.
The output of the controller will also be used to control which end the headlights light up on, another simple task.
I would also like to put an R/C control in it too, that would be cool. If I do that, I bought a flashing yellow light to put on top of the subway car so people know it's moving by itself! :-) :-)
The drawing below is my reproduction of the schematic that comes with the Plum Cove controller. The P/C version was very difficult to read, so I decided to redraw it. I enjoy doing drawings, so why not. Plus, I added a few more details such as the guts of the hand controller, pinout for the 7 pin connector, the battery connections, and the motor connections. They have since made a change to the wiring, but I cannot find my original Corel file in order to make the change. :-(
Eventually, I would like to duplicate this set-up below on the riding car. The throttle and -removable- reverse lever is on the left, the brake stand is on the right. The dead man control is incorporated into the throttle control, and if you notice, it is in the "up" position, and must be kept in the "down" position to operate. I believe (but not 100% sure), that it is a standard 8 position throttle, where the 1st four are parallel connections and the high speed (2nd four) are series connections. I also have to check, but they might be the series resistors your looking at on the side of the car, in white, between the two air tanks.
Let's say one discharges to 75%, and the other 60%. If I try to use one 24V battery to charge them up at the same time, one will be either overcharged or undercharged, while the other will be charged properly. You will never get both of them to be fully charged properly.
If we undercharge one, then we won't have a full days running on them, and the undercharged battery will keep getting less and less charged to the point where things won't function properly cause the total voltage is low.
If we overcharge one of them, it unnecessarily overheats the battery, could possibly buckle the lead plates, and shortens it's life.
Nether scenario is good. So that's why I'm using two battery chargers.
In line with one of the sides coming off the batteries will be a battery shut-off switch, this makes sure the power is really cut off.
On both ends of the subway car, I will be using 6 pin
trailer connectors, two of them, for the electrical stuff. Maybe
not particularly prototypical, but functional, and easy to replace if
needed.
The photos below show the batteries on chargers
sitting on the tailgate of my truck. One says 90 and the other
says 92 - that refers to the percent of full charge on the batteries.
When I'm running the subway car around, most of the time, it will be
running off the batteries. As much as I try to equally load each
battery, the load will never be the same, hence, the charge on the
batteries will not be the same at the end of the day. These are
Schumaker chargers, and I have decided against them, because if a
battery falls below 6VDC, the charger will think it IS a 6V battery, and
only charge it up to that voltage.... a serious flaw AND drawback!
Comments:
If anyone also happens to be into R/C models, you are probably familiar with the battery packs and chargers used to charge multi-cell batteries. The battery packs have a sense lead coming off of each cell so that the individual cells can all be properly charged, and that is why you can charge a 2, 3, or more cell pack at the same time with them all in series. The guys that do this in R/C modeling call this balancing, although because of the way the battery packs for R/C airplanes are made, the chargers can charge the individual cells properly. Using a standard 24V charger for our batteries, we do not have that luxury in the great majority of chargers, so they will not get a "balanced charge".
Someone commented that there is a 24V charger than can
accommodate the differences in charge, but I don't know how much it
costs. These marine chargers are 50 bucks each, and will float
charge the batteries as needed. For
the price, they do a lot, and have a lot of bells n whistles :-)
Let's start with the 120 volts coming in from the
outside. It comes into the car via a DPDT relay (RLY1) and a circuit
breaker or fuse. This is one of two relays used for isolation so the
various A/C sources don't connect together and blow-up.
The other side of this first relay will get connected
to the generator via the NC contacts. The 120 volt coil gets connected to the 120
volts coming in from the outside, so when it is not hooked to the
outside source, the NC relay contacts will connect the load side to the
generator. Plug the subway cars' cord into an extension cord, and
the relay will pull-in, connecting the load side to the outside source.
The junction between the two relays is also where the
battery chargers will get connected, for it is silly for the batteries
to be charging themselves :-)
Relay 2 does the same for the inverter.
Energize the AC inverter, the second relay will pull-in and disconnect
the generator or outside AC source.
One of the other Harbor Freight things I got is one
of their 800 watt generators so if I'm out on
the track somewhere, and run out of anything, I
can start that little puppy up and use the 120V
stuff to recharge the batteries, air, or vacuum.
To supply the
air, I plan on using two different compressors.
One is a 12 volter
from a car, like the ones
Tom Bee uses.
They were used to supply air for the air shocks
on a wide variety of cars from Subaru's,
Cadillac's and Dodge's. The second
one is a pancake compressor that operates off of
120 VAC.
I plan on having 3 air lines going between the
riding car and the subway car, so I can control
the air and vacuum from it. The passthru to the
following cars will have their choice of air or
vacuum, either to apply brakes or to release
them. I will probably use
standard brass air tool quick
disconnects between the riding car and the
subway car.
I haven't yet decided what to do about brakes yet.
For testing purposes, without anything else hooked up, I guess I can use
the regenerative breaking provided by the motors.
Whatever I decide on, I will most likely use air to
release the brakes.
My options are:
Build custom disc brakes. It would probably be
very easy to use the material below against a small disc placed on the
axles.
To make my own brake shoes similar to what's available
commercially.
To use the miniature brass or steel brake shoes
available from several vendors on the internet. The steel ones are
about 10 bucks apiece, the brass ones about $15. The brass ones
have better "sticktion".
I could also reline either of the above with a
friction material available from McMaster-Carr.
Comments from Chuck H about the stuff: Since my shoes
were 1.5” long I purchased #6175K826 which is a 0.250” thick,
Below are a couple of shots of Tom Bee's braking
system, which mounts into his truck frames. He uses his own custom
made double acting pistons.
Some clubs want chains, so there will be
provisions for that.
Things like the small lamp details and stuff,
horns, etc, might do in wood, dunno yet, details
to be worked out. Once painted,
you'll never know. Other detail stuff can be
made with brass from the hobby shop, just like
in HO or O scale.
Being a subway car, I also plan on having
operating doors, will probably use airplane R/C
servos, modified as mentioned below.
Switches to operate the doors will be on the riding car controller, as
well as push button switches in the leading end operators cab.
We will also need working
roll signs too. I will use paper and modified small
R/C servos to move em. Paper is easy to
print on once they are designed using Corel Draw. When I say modified, I
bypass the R/C control part of the servo, and just
use it as a motor! The switch to operate
the roll signs will be in the leading end cab. Even tho this is
planed as a #7 IRT car, I might make a roll sign for the line number
too, maybe....
Horn:
Since no-one makes a sound board for these
things, I guess I will have to put an air horn
on it, or figure out how to make one that sounds
like the original.....
Tools
I know people make a whole lotta fun about people who
have and use Harbor Freight
stuff, but for occasional use, most of their stuff works fine. I have
one of their 9x20
lathes, mill, bender, cutter, etc, etc.
I have a MIG and stick welder which can do the steel
stuff with, and a buddy of mine has a TIG welder if I
chose to use aluminum.
the Body Well, again, I'm going to use 3/4" plywood,
stiffened by 1x4 stock on the edge. The edge will probably get
painted white, while the deck of the car will probably get covered with
a blue rug I originally got to cover my DJ console. The nice thing
about it, is that is outdoor carpeting, and will kinda match the blue
color of the car. the Trucks Staying with Plum Cove, I opted to use their arch bar trucks.
Dunno why, I just like em. Before and after pictures are below.
Sam does a nice job of packing the hardware so stuff is easy to locate.
The assembly instructions are easy to follow, as assembly is a piece of
cake! It took me about 30 minutes to put the first one together, and
half of that was spent on several trips to the basement to get the tools I
needed. The only thing you need to supply besides the tools is
anti-seize so the bearings don't fuse with the aluminum pockets.
If you decide to use gel-cel type batteries, you can not use this kind of charger, they will get overcharged.
Location of lights on each end of the car.
Headlights
After much debate, I'm still looking around for a suitable LED to use as a headlight.
Being a subway car, they didn't have use the "ditch light" function of alternating headlights, but I'm going to add that function using a 555 timer chip, easy stuff. The Baltimore LRV's (Light Rail
Vehicles) actually have a push button switch that does this function when coming to a cross street or into a station, as they are not connected to the horn as railroad engines are.
The hardest part is probably coming up with a suitable lens.
Headlights and taillights. I believe this and the picture below are
from an R-36, which were almost identical to the R-33's.
Tail Lights
As for the taillights, they light up whenever the car is "auxed on", but the cab is not active (I don't know what they call "it" on these cars, but on the Baltimore LRV's, that's what
it's referred to). When the operator enters the cab, and activates the controls, the headlights come on, and the taillights go off... pretty standard operating procedure for most transit vehicles.
High output red LED's will be used for them. I will probably look for some 1/2 watters on EBay.
Marker Lamps
Subway cars also have markers lights, which can be one of several colors using glass filters on the real thing.
I plan on usiung an RGB (red-green-blue) LED. I will put 2 rotary switches in the front cab to control the left and right marker lights on both ends. Again, LEDs
are cheap anymore, even the RGB ones (or even an RGBW LED)! Probably one of the cheapest sources for colored LED's is either (after Christmas) multi-color LED light strings, or replacement LED's which you can typically find 6 or
8 for something like 50 cents (or less). I don't know how many colors the
subway cars are capable of displaying, but the few assemblies I have seen on
EBay, have 3 filters on a single assembly.
This past Christmas (2016), there was a light strand called the
Tree Dazzler,
and they DID NOT sell well at all: Home Depot, Walmart, and even Rite-Aid
were all selling most of them AFTER Christmas for 75% off, which was 10
bucks for 64 of them - 8 strands of 8. The controller is pretty much
useless, unless you want to hack the SMT driver transistors. They are
dumb RGB LED's, unlike the "smart" 2811 style with a built in decoder and
driver (where you only needed to send a single data stream to the LED in
order for it to work (in addition to a power and ground wire)). These
require 4 wires, a common, and one wire each for each of the red, green, and
blue chips. (see, I told you the electrical portion was "my thing", I
could go on all day about this crap :-) The nice thing about them is,
they already have a piece of cable soldered to them, so that is one step you
don't have to deal with.
Destination and route number roll signs, marker lamps and express/local
signs.
Express and Local Signs
Another cool feature of these subway cars are the express and local signs on each end. Over the operators cab is a red EXP, and on the opposite side is a green
LOCAL sign. There will be a toggle switch in the front cab to control these signs, lit by red and green LED's. Simple stuff.
Electrical - High Voltage Section
Catalog page:
http://www.mcmaster .com/#friction- material/ =j0ka7q
Costs
Everyone wants to know what a project like this costs, so here we go:
$1600 - powered truck from Plum Cove Studios, includes two powered axles, frame, bearings, power controller
$410 - non-powered truck from Plum Cove
$2010
$399 - pair of arch bar trucks from Plum Cove
$2409
$78 - pair of operating couplers from the
Railroad Warehouse
$2487
$175 - pair of 25R deep-cycle marine batteries
from Everlast (Walmart)
$2662
$18 - pair of plastic battery boxes - Walmart
$2680
$100 - pair of Schumacher Marine type battery chargers
- Walmart
$2780
$40 - 4 flashlights to use as the
headlights
$2820
$35 - 4x8 sheet of plywood,
3/4", 7 ply
$2855
$30 - 3 rotating bases for
boat seats
$2885
$30 - 2 boat seat stands
$2915
$xx - ts
$2xxx
As always, if you have something to add or
correct, my email is
here
NEW 08/25/2012
Last Modified
11-Mar-2017